The most Jalop car available for $30k

"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
07/21/2014 at 00:42 • Filed to: None

Someone posted earlier about the fact that the Z was pretty much the car that met or exceeded every criteria used to disqualify other sporty coupes. Yet they get no love.

I think its due to the rawness of the car. The FRS and 2 series are too refined, and the pony's are too restrained. This car is so rewarding to drive by the scruff of the neck. So man up and buy one!

DISCUSSION (37)

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
07/21/2014 at 00:45

The 370Z has never done anything for me. I always thought of it a what you would get if you rented a sports car from Enterprise, or what would be used if someone cast a sports car in a non-car commercial. There's just something thoroughly generic about it. I'm not sure why, because it's probably a great car, but it creates not emotional desire in me whatsoever. To be honest, I usually forget about it.

YSI-what can brown do for you > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
07/21/2014 at 00:46

Well it is pretty heavy it is like 3200lbs, where an FRS is only 2700lbs.

Decay buys too many beaters > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
07/21/2014 at 00:53

That's pretty much the exact opposite of how I felt. To me the FR-S was far more rewarding and involvingto drive flat out the while the z felt pretty numb. That's why I ended up with the FR-S over the Z or the Mustang.

EL_ULY > YSI-what can brown do for you
07/21/2014 at 00:55

but more huevos (power)

Manuél Ferrari > YSI-what can brown do for you
07/21/2014 at 00:55

But 3200 lbs is pretty light compared to everything else these days!

Textured Soy Protein > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
07/21/2014 at 00:56

I've always sorta liked them but not enough to buy one. Usually when I drive one I come away feeling like it drives too similarly to an Infiniti G sedan.

YSI-what can brown do for you > EL_ULY
07/21/2014 at 00:58

Yeah but power can only take you so far! Lower weight, means better body control and better braking! Plus imagine an FRS with as much power as a 370z!

YSI-what can brown do for you > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 00:59

But not as light as 2700lbs ;) I think the lower powered sports cars are getting close to the opitmal weight for a car. The Fiesta ST is about 2800lbs and so is the FRS, 400lbs less and it would be perfect!

Manuél Ferrari > YSI-what can brown do for you
07/21/2014 at 01:02

Yeah but the heavier cars have MOAR POWER :)

I think the 458 Speciale would be optimal for me. Light enough. Lots of N/A power.

I'm gonna rob a bank and buy one. Please don't tell anyone

DoYouEvenShift > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
07/21/2014 at 01:03

Does it have to be new?

Kinja'd!!!

I think, by definition, the most jalop car woulde be: A 3 cylinder diesel, 3 speed manual, wagon, no power anything, flat brown, on bias plies.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 01:03

I am thinking 2200lbs and 400hp would be enough to scare anyone's pants! That is my goal at least. The 458 is too heavy!! It needs to go on a diet!

EL_ULY > YSI-what can brown do for you
07/21/2014 at 01:05

heeeck yeah! I bet that would be just epic. Speaking stock for stock tho, I'm sure a 370Z has the braking and body control plus da powaaa. But like you said (and for the value) a Toyoburu with a bit more go fast sauce is a lethal combo for good times.

Manuél Ferrari > YSI-what can brown do for you
07/21/2014 at 01:06

But it's so damn sexy!

The 458S's curb weight is 1395 kg

What is that in Murican weight?

YSI-what can brown do for you > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 01:10

That is 3100lbs I think, or close to it. It is not as light as you think it is! It is that damn dual clutch transmission, it could be even lighter with a single clutch!

YSI-what can brown do for you > EL_ULY
07/21/2014 at 01:11

It probably does, just makes me question why none of their owners bring them to autocross events. I see a lot of Toyobarus but never any Z cars.

EL_ULY > YSI-what can brown do for you
07/21/2014 at 01:15

because most are automatic, getting audio upgrades, tinted taillights, and chrome wheels. Primarily used by gym bros on Saturday nights, windows down, blasting Kanye, and trying to pick up high school girls.

Manuél Ferrari > YSI-what can brown do for you
07/21/2014 at 01:16

I just looked it up. It comes out to:

3075.449 lbs

So you were right.

Yeah not that light

But the noise, the noise!

Yeah it would be lighter without the damn DCT. The Aventador's transmission would have been perfect.

Oh speaking of which! I have an engineering question for you.

I've been trying to research the different types of issues that different types of flappy paddle boxes can have.

I know the single clutch transmissions such as the prior Ferrari F1 and BMW SMG are prone to plumbing issues - pumps, lines, and the actuator. But I don't often hear of the transmission itself failing.

The DCTs don't seem to be as finicky as their design is different. They seem to be designed from the ground up to be an automated manual whereas the old single clutch ones were like a regular manual that had been hacked to work with paddles.

BUT I seem to find more references to DCTs failing and needing to be replaced.

Are DCTs more likely to fail outright than a single clutch flappy paddle box? Or is the data just really hard to find so who knows what's actually going on?

YSI-what can brown do for you > Manuél Ferrari
07/21/2014 at 01:22

Well I am assuming that it is fairly new, so they are getting a few kinks out, plus there are more parts in a DCT transmission to fail than a regular gearbox. I know absolutely nothing about these transmissions, I have a video of someone doing a clutch replacement on one I wanted to watch for a while but I haven't. So basically. . . I don't know.

Honestly though, they are super slick so which really begs the question of why they are failing? Are the dog gears going in too fast?

YSI-what can brown do for you > EL_ULY
07/21/2014 at 01:27

I rarely see them in my town or even at college, there is a Nismo 370z and I saw him at an autocross once, it was a manual and it sounded awesome! That was it though, never again would I see a 350 or 370z at a race!

1337HPMustang > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
07/21/2014 at 01:32

I considered 350z's. They look sweet, have 300 horses, drive the rear wheels, and have two seats. I want to love them but that engine is what's stopping me; it just doesn't sound as cool as a 300zx's turbo v6, or a growling mustang v8, or a e46's high revving straight six. I see a lot of Z cars and infinities at car meets and have yet to do a double take when I hear a vq rev up. If nissan put a straight six in the car or a turbo something, I'd be driving one as we speak.

Manuél Ferrari > YSI-what can brown do for you
07/21/2014 at 01:37

I wish I knew the answers!

It seems like only PDK is bulletproof. Nobody is able to break it. Not even with 991 Turbo S torque.

But the GETRAG box that Ferrari and AMG use isn't infallible. Gearbox failures are somewhat common in the 458 Challenge race cars.

1337HPMustang > DoYouEvenShift
07/21/2014 at 02:14

and a column shifter

wiffleballtony > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
07/21/2014 at 02:36

As someone who test drove all of the muscle cars plus the Z, I have to emphatically disagree with your assessment that the pony cars are at all restrained. Wheel spin and tail slides for days.

samssun > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
07/21/2014 at 05:50

It's because they sold a million 350Zs and people have gotten used to seeing them everywhere for the last decade, plus the engine is in another 10 million other Nissans.

Never mind that the 370Z improved on the 350 in nearly every way (brakes and suspension, on top of the power gain, while losing weight, which never happens)...its predecessor is cheap performance, so it's not quirky / rare / enough of a pain to be "Jalop". Damn car hipsters.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
07/21/2014 at 08:43

The most Jalop car available, at any price, is not a new car.

37deezee > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
07/21/2014 at 09:28

I've owned two 370z's... Love both of em... Had a 2009 sport and now have a 2014 touring sport. Got to drive my 09 at COTA. Real sports car... For $30ish grand will have its faults but I describe it to doubters as 2/3 a Porsche for less than half the cost...

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
07/21/2014 at 11:16

Which is why the idea of a "jalop" car is ignored by automakers.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
07/21/2014 at 11:30

By most, for sure. At least the demand for manual transmissions is great enough to convince BMW to offer it (against their plans) on the latest M5, Chevy with the SS, and Jaguar with the F-Type.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
07/21/2014 at 11:31

Too "meh", too yuppie, too impractical, too expensive, not actually all that fast.......take your pick. It is NOT raw. At all. Lots of non-car people own them. I think that's the problem. It is a well engineered and well refined sports car. That can't be denied. But it isn't for the hardcore. Yes it is very good for just a tick under 30 grand. But buying an FR-S or FiST/Fost or WRX or Miata for much less than that means you have money to spend on tuning and upgrades. You can make it into what you imagine for a total cost of 30k. And I think the 370Z is just into that realm of "too nice" to modify on a budget. At least when bought new. What can you really upgrade on it without upsetting the balance of the car? It isn't screaming out for any one thing. It sounds good enough stock and unless you add a very nice, well made system, an aftermarket exhaust will sound like ass on the inside and add no power (good exhaust sound great. Do us a favor if you buy one and research your system well). Handling setup seems to be pretty nice. Just calm enough over bumps and whatnot but still has good turn-in. Power is nice, transmission works well, clutch feel is good, seating position is nice. I sat in my friend's 370 (nissan employee lease too so we got to have some fun!) and it's a very nice car to drive. But I just don't think it has much personality from behind the wheel. Miatas are like loyal dogs, mustangs and camaros are stubborn beasts, and even through my dislike of the FR-S even I could see it had a certain charm to the steering. Sort of like before you give it a good hard turn it just winks at you because it knows what happens next. In the 370......Eh. It drove like a more grown up miata. I think that's the way I'll put it. Take the miata and dial up the performance a few notches but dial the fun down a notch or two.

Plus you can't forget that for a little bit more, the big brother can be bought. If you're going to buy a brand new 370Z and then drop 10-15k on upgrades, your benchmark is on the same dealer lot and still carries a warranty to go along with its nismo badge.

Kinja'd!!!

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
07/21/2014 at 11:33

Yeah, and it helps that some automakers are encouraging it too, like Mini. People are forgetting how much more fun a car with a stick can be......but then they drive a little 1.6L fiesta or a honda fit with a stick and have a blast in the bare bottom of the range. And then they get some money and think "Hmmmm.......If the stick shift could make a crapcan fun......What about my jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag??"

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
07/21/2014 at 11:36

See, I've just been overall unimpressed with the FR-S. The word that comes to mind is flacid. It does what it does well, but it hardly ever felt that it had the flair the Z had.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
07/21/2014 at 12:29

Well the Z to me feels like viagra - its a supplement to your life when you just can't get excited naturally. It's a pharmaceutical sports car. It works, there's just no passion left in it.

Saracen > EL_ULY
07/23/2014 at 01:44

and hideous and understeery.

Saracen > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
07/23/2014 at 01:50

Most Jalop car at $30k: WRX Hatchback.
Turbo, manual, AWD, five doors, and a boxer engine. Nothing at that price can be more jalop unless it's also brown and diesel.

Driven Z's on a couple of occasions. There are so many things about them that I disliked, beginning with the engine. The 3 liter VQ in my Maxima was a fantastic thing, but it should never have been punched out past that. At 3.5 and 3.7 liters it just feels so coarse. I would still rather get a BRZ and slap a roots blower on it if I felt the need for more power.

And 2k more for a 2015 Mustang GT? No brainer for me. With this iteration I think it will finally transcend to a proper sports car.

EL_ULY > Saracen
07/23/2014 at 02:29

a sportscar like a 370Z cannot be as bad as my A6 Quattro. Understeer king lol. Our Evora S at work also have quite a bit of understeer as do the new SL Mercs and a regular Vantage. A blip of on/off throttle and it's gone. .. excpt on my dumb wagon lol

Saracen > EL_ULY
07/23/2014 at 02:34

Of course, it's all relative. But for a sports car, the Z has lots of under steer.

EL_ULY > Saracen
07/23/2014 at 09:39

yup, most do